GM to invest in Mexico

UPDATE 2-GM to invest $691 mln in Mexican operations

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Reuters) - General Motors Co outlined plans on Wednesday for investing $691 million to expand its Mexican operations, including the previously unannounced expansion of its Toluca engine plant.

The plans include a new factory in Silao in central Mexico to build 8-speed transmissions and an upgrade to an existing factory in San Luis Potosi that will make next-generation transmissions, GM Mexico President Ernesto Hernandez said.

 

With numerous free trade agreements, a cheap, well-educated labor force, and proximity to the lucrative U.S. auto market, combined with growing demand in South America, automakers have been lining up for two years to set up shop or expand in a country that some analysts believe could eventually overtake Brazil as Latin America's biggest economy.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/26/mexico-general-motors-idUSL2N0F21AG20130626

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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What the liberal socialists in the US don't realise is that the more you tax people and businesses, the more they are going to find other countries to do business in.

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Look at the bright side... the illegals will go back to Mexico because there are no jobs here.

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When you keep crying for more taxes on the rich, and the rich ending up taking your job to other countries and you can't put the two together, then you may be a 'Low information voter'.

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Comments

  1. SEC

    And ironies of ironies, the union’s who scream loudest about “outsourcing” now sit on the management team of GM thanks to the bailout.

    June 29, 2013
    1. Brn2bfree

      Our bailout money going to Mexico?

      June 29, 2013
      1. SEC

        Don’t think so but then I’m not an accountant. But as it is the unions who scream the loudest about outsourcing I find it delicious that when they are in a management position they outsource.

        June 29, 2013
    2. livelonger

      Don’t be so naive and self deceiving. While GM claimed bankruptcy in the US to get rid of paying high union wages, they were making record profits in South America and Asia. They could have bailed themselves out if they didn’t have the plot to keep their money overseas.

      June 29, 2013
      1. livelonger

        “The WSJ looked at 60 U.S. companies that parked a combined $166 billion offshore last year, allowing 40% of their annual profits to escape U.S. taxes. In Bloomberg’s analysis of 83 companies, there was a $183 billion expansion over the past year in non-U.S. holdings, for a combined total across the 83 companies of $1.46 trillion in offshore profits.

        The trend is clear: figures from both papers show an increase from last year in offshore profits — up 15% using WSJ figures and a 14.4% increase using Bloomberg’s data.

        Further, some of these companies taking advantage of the corporate-friendly tax rules which have allowed over $1 trillion to get stashed in offshore profits are part of an effort designed to deliver austerity to the poor and middle class in the name of fixing the debt crisis.
        .
        “What makes this story especially obscene is that many of these companies, such as Honeywell and Microsoft, are leaders of the ‘Fix the Debt’ campaign, which is pushing for cuts to Social Security and Medicare as the solution to our fiscal challenges,” says Sarah Anderson, who directs the Global Economy Project at the Institute for Policy Studies."
        https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/03/11-6

        June 29, 2013
        1. jillsthoughts

          Don’t burst their bubble, Livelonger. The republicans were all excited to boast about GM pulling up roots.
          .
          Now let’s think: how long has outsourcing and jobs leaving the US been going on? Oh yeah, for nearly 20 years now. How much money has the US lost in taxes from the greed of these large companies? Trillions. And what has Congress done about it? Nothing.

          June 29, 2013
          1. Brn2bfree

            Yes, it’s been going on for a long time… but recently there’s been more outsourcing, more investing in Mexico. They probably like the fact that they are giving the finger to tha Auto unions… I"m lovin it!!

            June 29, 2013
            1. jillsthoughts

              Yes, of course you love that American jobs are going to Mexicans. Because you are anti-American.

              June 30, 2013
          2. Brn2bfree

            Didn’t the anointed one say he was going to do something about outsourcing?
            Here’s a headline for you … want the link?
            No tax breaks for companies outsourcing jobs, says Obama

            June 30, 2013
            1. jillsthoughts

              Your point? Congress needs to get the bill to him first.

              June 30, 2013
          3. Brn2bfree

            Well, is he working with Congress? I haven’t heard anything and I’m up with the news. Why isn’t he pushing like global warming? He barely talks about jobs.

            July 01, 2013
            1. jillsthoughts

              He’s trying to work with Congress. They aren’t working with him. They are all caught up in their own elections. Did you know Congress approval is at 14% as of yesterday?
              .
              If you don’t hear Obama talking about jobs, it’s because your news sources aren’t reporting it. Here he is talking about BOTH jobs and climate, from 4 days ago. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/26/climate-change-jobs_n_3505254.html

              July 01, 2013
  2. geargrinder2012

    Brn your smart enough to realize it’s not all about the taxes. It has more to do with wages then taxes. There are many loopholes that Companies use to avoid paying taxes. The desire for increased profits by paying even less in wages are what’s driving companies to other free trade agreement countries not the taxes they can find loopholes for.
    We have Wal Mart employees being forced to ask for Government assistance to help feed their families because of their low wages while Wal Mart continues to report ever higher profits.
    A company that holds a spot in the top ten of Fortune 500 and yet it’s employees must as the tax payer to help them purchase food for their families?

    Even your head isn’t up the Republican’s a** so far that you can’t see how fu*cked up this is!

    June 29, 2013
    1. Brn2bfree

      Brn your smart enough to realize it’s not all about the taxes.
      ~~~~~~~~~~~
      In that case why are liberals constantly wanting to tax the rich…???? The idiot liberals don’t realise that you can’t force companies to give a certain wage… the liberal idiots don’t realise that only incentives work…

      June 29, 2013
      1. geargrinder2012

        “The idiot liberals don’t realize that you can’t force companies to give a certain wage” Minimum wage Brn…….which I might add Republicans can’t stand either.
        The free trade agreement and it’s a ability to provide lower paying wages is what’s causing jobs to move to other countries not the taxes, again there’s many loopholes that allow a company to avoid taxes.

        Do some research my friend….

        http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/25/8-ridiculous-tax-loopholes-how-companies-are-avoiding-the-tax-man.html
        http://www.ips-dc.org/reports/corporate_tax_dodgers
        http://www.forbes.com/sites/connieguglielmo/2013/05/20/apple-used-loopholes-to-skip-paying-44-billion-in-u-s-taxes-senate-committee-claims/
        http://money.msn.com/taxes/10-notorious-tax-loopholes

        Your claim about taxes is a false argument.While the tax rate may in deed be high the amount being payed in is no were near that amount.

        .

        June 29, 2013
        1. Brn2bfree

          You guys aren’t happy with min wage….
          ….. now you’re saying it’s not taxes…
          Liberal idiots don’t understand it’s all about profit…. the country that provides the most in profit… means less taxes and less wages… wins the contract.. It’s about profits… However, the liberals think that profit should be shared with the workers.. It’s just wish and hope… they keep wanting things they can’t get.

          June 29, 2013
          1. geargrinder2012

            So your just fine with dirt wages,unsafe working conditions?

            June 30, 2013
            1. Brn2bfree

              Let the market decide this… let the people decide this..not a bunch of bleeding heart libeal politicians

              June 30, 2013
          2. deaconjim

            Bangladesh? He hasn’t learned anything right here at home.

            June 29, 2013
          3. Brn2bfree

            If the smart phones.. were done here in the US…. They woud cost us around $1,500. I understand what you mean cheap labor results in cheap products… In that case if the product get’s too cheap ..ie breaking apart or whatever… then that company gets a bad name and loses sales.. maybe eventually go out of business.
            .
            Like always try to teach the liberals… ‘Low information Outreach’ …
            ‘Let the market decide’…. Remember that. ‘Let the market decide’

            June 29, 2013
          4. livelonger

            So it’s your impression that an hour of labor costs an extra $1000 in the US.

            June 30, 2013
          5. Neighsayer

            @livelonger:
            awesome point!

            June 30, 2013
        2. Brn2bfree

          Corporate Tax Dodgers: 10 Companies and Their Tax Loopholes
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          These web sites you gave me make my point. The more you tax corporations… the more they are going to find ways to avoid paying taxes …as in look for loop holes, look for countries with less taxes…less wages… … To me it makes sense.
          .
          To the left, they want to approach in a different way… They want to demonize corporation..they want to make demands… it’s bad approach.
          You gotta work with corporate greed.. use it, understand it and give them encentives do business here in the states.

          June 30, 2013
          1. geargrinder2012

            So your saying we should allow them to pay what ever they wish to pay in wages and or taxes? Granted this wil indeed create quite a few jobs but wouldn’t this create the same working conditions and wages as there is in the countries Corporations are moving to?

            June 30, 2013
            1. Brn2bfree

              You’re worried about unsafe working conditions. Our country has stricter guidlines and I realize other countries don’t but that’s how it is. They can keep their costs low because the companies don’t have severe regulations… …in the mean time they don’t mind sacrificing their people.
              .
              So, now you’re concerned about the wages and conditions of workers in other countries… eh? You’re right we do live in a fish bowl… It is a smaller world now… in that we need to compete with the rest of the world… Our unions and environmentalists are choking our chances……
              .
              If you think about it … it’s better to have somethng than to have nothing… Mr. Mike.. think about.

              June 30, 2013
    2. livelonger

      Uh …. maybe because as Republicans try to cut wages in the US, SOMEBODY has to pay taxes, especially to drop a few billion into deserts outside the US?

      June 29, 2013
  3. Neighsayer

    But, Brn2bfed, what’s the effing difference? If we don’t tax them to keep them here, they don’t pay, if they move out they don’t pay, whatsa difference? You charge them Mexican-style labour rates, or you go on welfare, either way, you’re making a few hundred a month, whatsa difference?

    June 29, 2013
    1. Brn2bfree

      Are you guys like Mexican-style labour rates? Are you considered a third world country? Do you guys have sweat shops? .. All these questions I would like to ask our Canadian neighbours.

      I’m still tripping over the fact that blacks are not called … ‘African Canadians’…. here in the States.. they want us to call them African Americans.. …
      .

      June 29, 2013
      1. Neighsayer

        No, Brn, not yet. We’re the same as you, just a little more civilized.
        And “they” only prefer ‘African Americans’ to what you usually call black people.

        June 29, 2013
  4. Neighsayer

    Brn2Bfed says
    “In that case if the product get’s too cheap ..ie breaking apart or whatever… then that company gets a bad name and loses sales.. maybe eventually go out of business.
    . . . Remember that. ‘Let the market decide’

    That’s precious. Except that all the CEOs hang out together, industry symposiums and whatnot during working hours, Monte Carlo and such weekends. I work for the phone company, and all their downsizing and outsourcing, they put down to competition and a changing industry, and guess what? ALL the phone companies say that, and they ARE "the industry. End result?
    When the battery in your cell dies, it’s no longer available, and you need a new phone. By Brn’s theory, some cellphone company could out-compete the others by being the one that has new batteries after one year of the products life. It would keep you with that manufacturer, whereas when you buy a new phone, you may go elsewhere. They don’t care if you buy the other brand, as long as you buy a new one, they all have each other’s stock. The whole industry preys on us together.

    Now to the auto industry. How ling have they been making cars, 100 years or so? And still, new cars fail in old ways. Brake problems, seat belt problems, gas tanks placed badly, explosion hazards. By Brn’s theory, companies doing that would fail for these reasons, yet they thrive. The whole industry preys on us together, they are like a pack of wolves and we are an ageing moose.

    “Competition” is for the proletariat, we fight each other for scraps. The rich, the CEOs, the bankers, they don’t beat each other’s brains out any more than generals fight their wars mano a mano. It is a story for children, patently false. “Competition,” my ass. Corporations are people, markets decide how we live . . . they go to some great mental lengths to distance themselves, don’t they? To make sure the average person doesn’t realize it’s people, rich people who make our world what it is

    June 30, 2013
    1. geargrinder2012

      Well stated Neighsayer!

      July 01, 2013
      1. Neighsayer

        I thank you . . .

        July 01, 2013
    2. Brn2bfree

      I guess you know about the golden rule… the ones who have the gold rule.
      .
      I could understand your dislike for competition and the free market, your deamonizing the corporations and the rich…… most communists are that way.

      July 01, 2013
      1. Neighsayer

        fair enough

        July 01, 2013
      2. Neighsayer

        of course you missed it. I don’t hate competition, but there is no competition with this sort of capitalism.

        July 01, 2013
        1. Brn2bfree

          What sort of capitalism? It comes in diferent flavors?

          July 01, 2013
          1. Neighsayer

            Yeah, the one you talk about and the one that actually exists.

            July 01, 2013
  5. timholzbaur

    Brn…you’re on the right track. It’s not just taxes though. It’s lower pay, NO union interference, and less in taxes…now in 2014 you can add the cost of Obamacare to the reasons companies are shipping out and cutting back. Now I know my comment will draw every nemesis I have here, a couple of whom are already on this thread. Liberals wanted Obamacare…now you have the very same people who passed it trying to get out of being included in it. Companies are seeking exemptions. You and I however, will be forced to buy into a plan or pay the penalty. They put away mobsters for this…it’s called extortion. Walmart has already cut back on it’s hiring and hours for current employees so they don’t have to worry about Obamacare. Other companies stopped investing in expansion within US borders to do the same thing. Liberals are very happy with themselves I’m sure. I love the way the Canadians, who have no say or feel any effect from these policies are the ones who defend the liberals the most. Maybe that’s the problem Brn…too much outside influence.

    June 30, 2013
    1. mrmacq

      ahhh
      captian flag up his butt speaks
      .
      did it ever occur to you that those pesky canucks tend to side with your liberals cause they
      (and not you repulsives)
      actually make sense?
      .
      (nah didnt think so…)
      .
      take your obamacare
      while not quite the same article as ours is still ten times better than 40 mill of your citizens going without
      also of note
      our universal healthcare has been with us for over half a century now
      notice
      company’s and corps (up here in the great white north) are not running away ’cause costs got too high
      the opposite is true
      as herr brns other bullshit thread helps prove
      walmart is actually expanding up here (as with target)
      .
      see?
      thats all you repulsives have got
      fear and loathing…OHHH!
      and outright lies

      June 30, 2013
      1. timholzbaur

        I’d rather have a flag there than what you take…..

        June 30, 2013
        1. mrmacq

          impressive
          betcha your school yard buddies also chuckled with ya
          .
          oh and yes i did just call you a child

          June 30, 2013
    2. mrmacq

      “will draw every nemesis I have "
      .
      if you have that many
      then perhaps the problem doesnt lie with them
      but rather you

      June 30, 2013
      1. timholzbaur

        or maybe they just hate the truth.

        June 30, 2013
        1. mrmacq

          youre so full of shit
          did i not just explain? how it really is in the real world?
          pretty sure i did

          June 30, 2013
          1. Brn2bfree

            Mr. Mac-dude,
            I guess i’m not the only one you go nuts over. I think you’re a disturbed individual. I think the reason why you canucks favor the liberals here in the states is because you guys are liberal. That explains your behaviour.
            Calm down… you’re gonna lose your hair.

            July 01, 2013
            1. mrmacq
              i just told the captian there the reason

              whats wrong with you? cant read?
              figure cause you lie everyone else does
              and yes timmy there is another unthinking sot
              youre two of a kind herr brn

              July 01, 2013
            2. timholzbaur

              Notice Brn, the mark of the true leftist liberal…furrowed brow, nasty attitude, and the extreme inability to spell. It’s Captain Mac. Glad I could advance your education if only a bit.

              July 01, 2013
    3. livelonger

      “now in 2014 you can add the cost of Obamacare to the reasons companies are shipping out and cutting back.”
      They’re moving to countries that already have UNIVERSAL HEALTH care. So why would a company move to another country that has the same conditions of health care? What’s left — LOW WAGES; that’s why Mexicans come HERE. The US is one of the few left to get on board with national health care. Idiots always believe that other countries don’t yet know about health care for their nations.
      .
      “Public Health care delivery is accomplished via an elaborate provisioning and delivery system instituted by the Mexican Federal Government. Public health care is provided to all Mexican citizens as guaranteed via Article 4 of the Constitution. Public care is either fully or partially subsidized by the federal government, depending on the person’s (Spanish: derechohabiente’s) employment status. All Mexican citizens are eligible for subsidized health care regardless of their work status via a system of health care facilities operating under the federal Secretariat of Health (formerly the Secretaria de Salubridad y Asistencia, or SSA) agency.
      .
      Employed citizens and their dependents, however, are further eligible to use the health care program administered and operated by the Instituto Mexicano del Seguro Social (IMSS) (English: Mexican Social Security Institute). The IMSS health care program is a tripartite system funded equally by the employee, its private employer, and the federal government.
      .
      The IMSS does not provide service to employees of the public sector. Employees in the public sector are serviced by the Instituto de Seguridad y Servicios Sociales de los Trabajadores del Estado (ISSSTE) (English: Institute for Social Security and Services for State Workers), which attends to the health and social care needs of government employees. This includes local, state, and federal government employees.
      .
      The government of the states in Mexico also provide health services independently of those services provided by the federal government programs. In most states, the state government has established free or subsidized healthcare to all their citizens.4
      Wikipedia

      June 30, 2013
    4. Neighsayer

      @Tim:
      Outsourcing went on apace all through the Bush years too, no healthcare, no liberals.
      Yes, you will be forced to have healthcare. It’s going to suck, especially since you will probably never get sick and never die.
      Canadians know as much about America as you do, and it matters. Trends there are usually trends here, too.
      Why did you hit the “reply” button on my comment if you weren’t addressing anything I said?

      June 30, 2013
      1. timholzbaur

        I just hit the wrong reply button. As to the outsourcing, that’s been going on since Nixon and Carter. The healthcare…I don’t need it. I see a doctor maybe once every ten years. I am in excellent health, and I have a cold maybe twice a year that goes away within a week. Why should I spend the money on a healthcare plan I don’t need? There’s still debates on whether it’s constitutional to make me do it. They’re FORCING me to buy a product or service I do not need or require. That’s unconstitutional. As to Canadians knowing what we live through here, Nah. You’ve got your system, we have ours. AND since they have no real skin in the game, they’re not compelled to look at all the details of these plans. A look at the details of Obamacare will show you that it will not help anyone but the insurance companies. I will get old, I will get sick, I will die. I will address my odds of that as I get older and am more probable to fall prey to that situation.

        June 30, 2013
        1. Neighsayer

          Nixon’s high profile trip to China, huh . . .
          Those on the American Right act as though healthcare is impossible, that it just can’t work, when every other civilized country (and some less civilized ones) already has it. You just cover your ears and pretend all those countries don’t exist?
          So because you don’t worry about it the other 39,999,999 uninsured Americans shouldn’t get healthcare? That’s rather antisocial.
          I don’t know anything about the States, but you, an American, know everything about what Canadians know?
          Yes, the insurance companies win, that’s the next step you guys should probably take, the next thing you should look at. That was caused by the Right, though, the capitalists in congress who would never have allowed actual state-provided universal healthcare.

          June 30, 2013
          1. timholzbaur

            I am so tired of hearing about how the people on the right think it can’t work. We know it can, but not like this. Canada has appalling figures of wait times and doctors per patient ratios. England…same thing. Why? There aren’t enough doctors willing to take what the government pays them. Obamacare has already reduced the compensation to health care providers, and it has resulted in doctors cutting their losses by refusing new Non-cash patients, some have stopped taking medicare/Medicaid, and others still have set up cash-only practices keeping their patients on a tab instead of taking the lower compensation from the government/companies. Yup, socialized medicine CAN work, but not like this.

            June 30, 2013
            1. Neighsayer

              Yeah, we have all those problems to some degree, people can’t get a GP, they’re not taking patients. All the new docs want to specialize, that’s where the money is. But your care is PAID FOR. That makes for less difference for class.
              But – “not like this?” It’s the Tea Party and the Republicans that insisted it be “like this.” They fucked it up on purpose so you’d hate it.

              June 30, 2013
            2. timholzbaur

              You and I have had…disagreements… before and ended them like gentleman. Let’s do that again. We can agree to disagree. The answer is hard, and no one will ever think the solution 100% correct.

              June 30, 2013
            3. Neighsayer

              all right

              June 30, 2013
            4. mrmacq

              “Canada has appalling figures of wait times and doctors per patient ratios.”
              .
              what a bunch of crap
              hear this from fox did ya?
              ever thought of ask’in …oh i dont know…a canuck right here posting?
              .
              its quite obvious your minds made up
              no need for truth to come out
              say…you religious as well?
              cause those guys are a bunch of retreads as well
              so cock sure of themselves

              June 30, 2013
            5. mrmacq

              neigh
              another reason (besides specializing)
              its hard to find a GP
              cause greedy bastard physicians are travelling south to were the money is
              they train up here subsidiesed by tax dollars
              then after their residency is through
              they head south
              .
              we’d be better off not living this close to yankee land
              (so pick up that oar and start rowing)

              June 30, 2013
            6. mrmacq

              " The answer is hard…"
              no it aint
              its right there in front of you
              if you’d only care to think about it
              .
              you had your chance to have the healthcare that would be the envy of the world
              but those fucking repubs started with the lies
              just as you are still doing here
              so what did you get?
              insurance companies still calling the shots
              and as a bonus to the insurance companies
              repubs blaming others rather than those that actually are calling the shots
              .
              i tell ya
              dumb? meet dumber

              June 30, 2013
            7. mrmacq

              unlike neigh there timmy
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0ussQX-B6U
              i have lockjaw

              this is a discussion fourm
              ya cant just spew your bullshit and walk away
              (well ya can but you look pretty juvinile..quite like that comment of yours above)

              .
              “instead of taking the lower compensation from the government”
              and if they had no choice?
              what then?
              .
              i shall answer for you
              lower costs to the consumers
              .
              hello?

              June 30, 2013
            8. timholzbaur

              That’s the beauty of being me. I’ve said all I need to say, and to sit and argue with you would make me miss out on other posters who actually write their own stuff instead of destroying someone elses post or regurgitating annoying trains of thoughts and mockery. Have a very nice day.

              June 30, 2013
            9. mrmacq

              i really didnt expect anything different from you
              sit and argue?
              dude you havent responded to one question yet
              how could you possibly call that arguing?
              (sides i came here to discuss…however im a canuck and therefore beneath you eh?)
              .
              a differing opinion you call annoying train of thought
              and mockery?
              well our captian flag up his butt would never do that
              now would he?
              .
              personally
              i figure you’ve worked quite hard to get those "nemesis you have "
              congradulations captian
              job well done

              July 01, 2013
    5. This comment has been deleted
    6. Brn2bfree

      Great Post Mr. Tim,
      I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees what’s going on. I think many of the low information voters still haven’t got a clue that they are going to be forced to pay … i.e. fines and so on. Wait till they see that they’re tax returns are going to pay their fines on Obamacare.

      July 01, 2013
      1. timholzbaur

        They want to believe in this rosey land where everything works perfectly, nobody goes without, and everything political is fair and balanced; they live in a dream world. The progressive liberal will run us broke, the far right wil see only the rich survive. There is a medium somewhere IF they would sit dowon and talk, but heaven forbid we talk a little common sense. I’m sorry to bring such drama to your post. They always attack, especially Mac. He’s got a special kind of hate for me.

        July 01, 2013
        1. Brn2bfree

          Not at all Tim, I enjoy reading your posts. You make sense to me. I guess we are both prone to big Mac attacks.
          .
          When liberals get into power their first goal is to give socialism another try.. as if last time they didn’t spend enough. They think we can spend our way to prosperity. They keep doing the same thing over and over thinking they will get different results. Not only they’re insane thinking that they can create this ‘utopia’ where,…. like you said everything is fair… nobody goes without. Liberals are fake (nice term for liars), they can’t sell their ideas so they have to lie. When they get caught then all hell breaks open.
          .
          I’ve said many times that there needs to be both sides….liberals and conservatives…. and the pendulum swings back and forth as it should… like you said also, you don’t want it to go too far right either. But unfortunately, the Deomocrats (progressives) have accomplished their goal of having over 50% fo the voting population dependent on the government. They will always vote Democrat…. Republicans can’t compete with the Santa Claus party… Unfortunately, the pendulum has swung too far to the left and is going to be a real problem. Only events will change the direction… the opposing side (Republicans) don’t have the numbers to make changes.

          July 01, 2013
          1. timholzbaur

            Wait for the housing/finance bubbles that Obama has reinflated to pop…then all those rich progressives and unqualified home buyers lose everything. They won’t be able to blame Bush anymore. The dollars value sinks, promises are going to go unkept, and even the most liberal progressive will see where Obama went wrong…unfortunately, too late.

            July 01, 2013
            1. Brn2bfree

              They will blame Bush… regardless… that’s how they are …. You can’t change a leopards spots. Did you notice that libeals always need someone or something to demonize.? They think by blaming others it’s all good now… they could move on. It’s not like that always.. they start looking like fools… Like us sitting their saying to ourselves… ok here it comes.
              .
              You just pointed out some ‘events’ that will have to take place for the low info. people to wake up.

              July 01, 2013
          2. Neighsayer

            Jesus, you guys. Get a room already.

            July 01, 2013
            1. Brn2bfree

              Lol…

              July 01, 2013
            2. timholzbaur

              Oh Neigh, you slay me! Get a room. LOL.

              July 01, 2013
    7. Brn2bfree

      Socialized medicine is the mother of socialism… Socialism is big intrusive government. Welcome to Obamacare… well, it’s an obamanation. Building Obamacare is building much bigger government. The Republicans are opposing it and the Democrats are for it.

      July 01, 2013